Report: Welly-moot #3.4 - All about Dain Ironfoot

Our meeting on August 31st was a very active one, and full of passion. In all, eight people turned up, and we all took active roles in the discussion; the history of Dain Ironfoot. In attendance were Alex and Jack, Cinnamon and Ash, Sinead and Luke, Miranda, and Wayne.

From left, clock-wise around the table: Cinnamon, Ash, Luke, Sinead, Jack, Wayne, Miranda. Missing (photographer): Alex.

As usual we started with Jack opening the meeting, and some general updates. First, some news about the Rivendell Archway in Kaitoke Park showing the recent photos. It looks quite beautiful and is nearing completion. The official opening is planned to be on October 11th, which is also the 15th anniversary of Day 1 of filming of LOTR. Hopefully Welly-moot will be invited.

The current hot topic is Peter Jackson's new Biggest Hobbit Fan Contest, and some of the Welly-mooters have applied already. Of course, of any of us win, we won't need to be flown to Wellington!


Cinnamon showed off a new keyring with the key of Erebor. It looked pretty cool. We talked about collections and different kinds of "collectors". Some display everything on shelves (like Jack), while others don’t open their items but keep them in the original boxes and just keep them for their own happiness (like Ash). Some do both.


The main activity was Dain Ironfoot aka Dain II. Most of us did some homework and we had active discussion about this mysterious Dwarf Warrior.  Cinnamon brought her reference book The Complete Guide To Middle-earth (by Robert Foster), and read the section on Dain II. This set up some general information about him, and we started bringing any additional background.

Jack brought a couple of Tolkien books as well - The Return of the King, The Hobbit, and The Unfinished Tales - and also added a family tree taken from the excellent LOTR Project site by Emil Johansson. If you haven't checked out this site, you're missing out. Our gratitude to Emil for creating this amazing reference site!

Dwarves, dwarves everywhere (click for larger version). Source: www.lotrproject.com

An unexpected controversy, and a highlight discussion of the afternoon was "What are the Five Armies?". Obviously, the first four are Human, Elves, Dwarves, and Goblins, but what of the fifth???? Wargs?  Sinead and Miranda suggested that it might be Eagles. It is possible. Cinnamon checked her book and it says the fifth one is Eagles. However some of us were not totally convinced. Maybe Orcs? Jack checked The Hobbit, and found that Goblins and Orcs are same kind of creature.

"[...] Orc is not an English word. It occurs in one or two places but is usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kind) [...]" - The Hobbit (prologue), JRR Tolkien

Alex suggested that maybe it was Beorn. Did he came with some other bears? Wayne checked his beautiful two-part Hobbit book and found the Beorn’s entrance at the battle, “In that last hour Beorn himself had appeared – no one knew how or from where. He came alone.”

Jack & Alex. Alex is winning the argument.

The Hobbit book is quite clear about the fifth army - it's the Wargs. However, given the lack of importance given to the Wargs in the movie (other than beasts of burden), we must wait to find out Peter Jackson’s decision about the fifth army in the next movie.


The discussion moved on to the actor who will play Dain, Billy Connery. Ash used his iPad, and read out an interview with Connoly. Apparently Billy has never read the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings and he thinks people who read them are weird. :)

Here is a Yoube link to a similar interview from him. Be warned - it goes slightly NSFW after a while, but given that it's Billy Connoly, that's not too surprising.


After wrapping up the discussion, we moved on to some other business. Jack has been working in the background about a new feature for the Welly-moot, an email-list. We agreed that a mailing list will be useful and easy to receive timely notification of updates on the Welly-moot website. When the work is completed, Jack will send a single email to all past and present Welly-mooters - please REPLY to that if you want to be on the Welly-moot mailing list. New Zealand has very strict anti-spam laws (gladly!), so we have to have an opt-in list rather than an opt-out one.

The Hobbit 3 is coming in three months, so we are expecting more information about any events in Wellington, and we are trying to organise a Hobbit movie marathon at Roxy in December. We will keep everyone informed on this website if there is any update.

Next Welly-moot 3.5 meeting is October. We are thinking of having it at the Rivendell site in the Kaitoke forest. The area has been updated with some new poles, paved paths, new signs, and of course the new Archway. Let’s explore Rivendell!


Also Jack will take a Hobbit location tour of Trollshaw's Forest in Piopio (near Waitomo), as well as the new night tour at Matamata's Hobbiton including dinner at Green Dragon. He will report them with photos at next meeting in October!

Till then!

Heads-up: August 31 is Welly-moot day!

On the last day this month we will be meeting again at the Roxy Cinema for Welly-moot #3.4. Since the last of Peter Jackson's Hobbit movies isn't far away, this is a great oppportunity to discuss one of the lesser known characters from it - Dain Ironfoot, or Dain II.

The Dwarves arrive at the Battle of Dale, (clipped from the new Trailer, (c) 2014 NLP)

Dain, son of Nain, son of Gror, lord of the Dwarves of the Iron Hills, and eventually King under the Mountain and King of Durin's Folk. He shared his great-grandfather Dain I with Thorin Oakenshield (aka Thorin II), and his son was named Thorin III. Another title - Dain, Slayer of Azog. Legend has it his last name "Ironfoot" refers to his iron boot holding down Azog's neck as he hewed the Orc's head off.
 
Who was he, what were some of his amazing achievements, and how is his character changed in the movie versions? Dain II will be played by Billy Connoly, who as far as I can tell is anything but dwarf-like, and yet so perfect for the role! I can't wait to see how he will look!

I think we can easily fill an afternoon with that, plus coffee.

So, come and join us for a Dwarven filled meeting, and if anyone's got any Dwarven artifacts to show off, please bring them - I may bring a couple of axes!

The time and place:

Sunday, August 31st, 2:00pm

downstair at the Roxy Cinema (Miramar)

As always - free to attend, but bring coffee-and-cake money. Note, attendance will make you a member of Welly-moot for life). See you there!

News: Hobbit 3 BOTFA Contest starts August 25

Halfway through the mad busy time of finishing the last Hobbit movie, Peter Jackson takes out to go to San Diego Comic-Con. Halfway through the insanely busy time at Comic-Con, he takes time out to announce a fan contest, to bring "the ultimate fan" to Wellington, to watch the third movie "[...] with me, at the first official screening of The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies, right here in Wellington".

What are we to make of this? Is Wellington getting the Red Carpet World Premiere after all? Possibly; possibly not. It does mean, however, that SOMETHING will be happening here, as we had expected. Very exciting!

As for the contest - obviously, we're already IN Wellington, so I probably won't be entering it, hehe. If you're a past member of Welly-moot, and have left NZ's shores, this might be an awesome way to return!

The contest starts on August 15th, and we don't know what it will entail yet. Keep watching Facebook/YouTube, etc.

In the meantime, enjoy this fantastic poster, from The Hobbit blog:

Report: Welly-moot #3.3, a quiet but fun meeting

Today's meeting was a relatively small but fun get-together. Everyone brought their own experiences in Middle-earth and we shared our stories.

Jack opened the meeting of eight people; Jack, Alex, Franziska, Martin, Annabel, Wayne, and Ash & Cinnamon. We took turns giving updates about current Hobbit related events; everything from Hobbit 3's first viewing date, to the planned expansion of Wellington's airport runway.

Jack, and a rare photo of Alex, who usually takes the photos (thanks Annabel for sneaking this one in!)

Martin brought a copy of The Hobbit 2 Official Movie Guide (by Brian Sibley), and shared his Laketown experience as an extra. He does end up appearing in the movie, so that was all worth it.

Martyn (right) shows his scenes in the movie to Franziska (left) & Cinnamon (centre)

Ash brought his Sting replica, which is a beautifully made United Cutlery weapon. Compare with many unofficial replicas, it is so well made; beautifully decorated and gorgeous Elven patterns, and the real leather sheath still smells fresh.

Martyn, and Ash with Sting

Cinnamon shared her photos with the actors and crew from the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movies. It seems she's managed to meet quite a few of them, including John Rhys-Davies.

The highlight of the day was Franziska’s presentation. She brought her laptop and had prepared a slideshow of her experiences in New Zealand's Middle-earth. She has been to many Lord of the Rings and Hobbit filming locations in NZ, and has met many people who have been involved these movies. You can find her wonderful experiences on her blog, Hebin thîr lîn mi nguren, as well as (a lot!) of fan-art about Middle-earth's elves.

Franziska has had a great year in New Zealand

Sadly, Franziska is leaving NZ and will return to Germany soon. Franziska, from everyone at the Welly-moot, thank you for bringing your enthusiasm and passion. We will miss you…at least until you return, which I'm sure will happen at some stage!

Franziska also baked some Lembas for the group. None left, sorry.

We had some discussions about what activities we can do or join for the release of the last Hobbit movie this December. There are some possibilities, however none of them are certain yet. We will keep everyone informed of any updates on this website.

After the meeting, we paid a visit to the Weta Cave. Some of members have not been there for a while and as it was the 60th anniversary of the release of LOTR, they had some great specials on some of their books. We had a quick chat with the staff and a number of Lord of the Rings tour guides who were just at the shop, and we took a photo with Franziska, and Tom the Trolls.

Wayme, Cinnamon, Ash, Jack, Alex, and Franziska, with Tom the Troll outside the Weta Cave

Till next meeting!

Heads-up! Welly-moot #3.3 this coming Sunday 29th of June!

The next Welly-moot will be on Sunday, June 29th, 2:00pm, downstairs at the Roxy Cinema (Miramar). I realise this is a later warning than usual, but hopefully we'll get enough people to make it worthwhile.

This time we're going to try to set up downstairs if we can swing it. Upstairs the high ceilings seemed toimpede smooth conversations a little, but if we can get a table downstairs I think that may help somewhat.

Given the late warning for the meeting, I want to leave the theme a pretty vague one. We're making this one a good old fashioned Show'n'Tell. Come and talk to us about your own experiences in Middle-earth, in whatever way. Maybe Middle-earth is New Zealand for you, maybe not. Everyone has their own story to tell, so come and tell it! If you've got any "props" to help you tell the story, take it along as well!

Alternatively, come and enjoy a cup of coffee while listening to other people's stories. This isn't 3rd grade - you won't HAVE to do a speech!

 - Jack

Report: Welly-moot #3.2 a success.

The 22nd meeting of the Wellington Tolkien group Welly-moot #3.2 was held this weekend, in a new venue, the Roxy Cinema in Miramar. It was a very lovely place to meet.

The meeting was attended by a few more Miramar residents than usual; Annabel and her two hobbits were there, as were Sinead and Luke. The whole committee was present as well; myself and Alex, as well as Kris. Franziska was able to attend as well, although sadly her next meeting is likely to be her last one, as she will return to Germany later this year.

We also welcomed some new members into the group. From Australia, Trevor and Christine joined us from the Brisbane Tolkien group (which also includes Peter Kenny). Trevor and Christine had hoped to come on a tour with me the next day but I was called up for Jury Duty, of all things, and couldn't host the tour.

Jack & Alex, Luke & Sinead

Also joining us for the first time were Wellingtonians Andrew and Tessa. Andrew works with Alex, and is apparently quite the LOTR collector! (We'd love for you to bring some cool stuff with you next time, Andrew!)

Annabel, Franziska, Andrew & Tessa

Due to the auspicious date, Jack started the meeting with a "May the 4th be with you", and discussed the latest rumours and announcements regarding the new Star Wars VII casting, which of course now includes "our" very own Andy Serkis.

We went around the table to see if anyone else had any updates. We'd met Welly-mooters Kim & Warren in the morning at the "Wellington Better Home & Living Show 2014". They have successfully managed to set up their business creating and selling their new sculptable concrete "Pal Tiya". You can take one day workshop to learn how to use the materials and create your original sculpture. Their website is http://www.paltiya.com. A basic bag costs only $16(nz). Sign up for a class if you're keen, it's a lot of fun to use, and very addictive!

From the Brisbane group, Trevor announced a Medieval Festival

in Brisbane in October 2014. This will be a costumed event, if you are interested in attending. Check their website for more details

Then it was time for the main theme for the day - "When does Saruman go to the dark side?". A few had done some research - kudos goes to Kris, Franziska, and Sinead. 

Jack started the conversation by dividing the "dark side" into a beginning and a finality. Even at the final stages, Saruman could have returned to the good guys. Saruman didn’t kill Gandalf, or use his army of Orcs and Uruk Hai. Although he chose not to, he could still have put down the Palantir of Orthanc. It's not until he cuts the tree of Orthanc and Fangorn that he reaches rock-bottom, and irretrievably turns bad. The final chapter of Saruman (in the books, at least) of his ultimate doom in the Shire is an inevitable end, and in some ways represents an almost pitiful end to a great wizard, defeated by the smallest of the speaking peoples, hobbits.

In the Middle-earth mythos, his cutting down of the trees is a necessary step into darkness. In Tolkien’s worlds, trees are very important. In all of his stories, not just limited to the Middle-earth sagas, all of the Good Guys either live in trees, live under trees, in trees, with trees, tend to trees, are compared to trees, named after trees (eg, Legolas Greenleaf), symbolically represented by trees (eg, Aragorn, who is the White Tree), or, as in the case of the ents, ARE trees.

It can not be an accident of Tolkien that the most heroic person in LOTR (surely Samwise!) just "happens to be" a Gardener back in the Shire.

After Saruman destroys nature, it is nature that comes after him.

Kris brought up the characteristic differences between Saruman and Gandalf. Saruman counts arrogance as one of his character flaws. He knows Gandalf’s greatness, however he wants to be in charge of the world, and perhaps fears Gandalf's superiority. Gandalf knows something is wrong with Saruman, however he keeps showing his respect to Saruman or he is pretending not know Saruman’s power-seeking (but ultimately) self-destructive behaviours.

Franziska suggested that Saruman uses technology (eg, his Palantir) and machines, and although he has been connected with evil, he "merely" desires to have knowledge of the world and primarily his desire is to make the world better, however he uses wrong tools. Whereas true evil (like Melkor/Morgoth) seems more interested in destroying everything created by Eru, Saruman appears more interested in ruling it all. Perhaps a more optimistic viewpoint?

Sinead pointed that Saruman wasn’t given any rings and so he is jealous when he suspects that Gandalf has been given a ring of power. This especially since Saruman adores having power over other (including his fellow Istari).

Our discussion expanded to the characters of Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel, and the nature of Mirkwood, Ents, and trees in general.

And then it was almost time to pack up again. A last roundup of plans for the end-of-year release of The Hobbit 3 (now subtitled "The Battle Of The Five Armies"). We are keen to have a movie marathon; Hobbit 1 and 2 before the Hobbit 3 is shown in December at Roxy Cinema. We will keep informed any other possibilities in this website.Jack will find further information about any upcoming functions.

Regarding the new venue - despite noisy conditions due to the high ceilings, we have decided to have next meeting at Roxy Cinema again. Next meeting is on 29 June at Roxy Cinema, 14:00pm, a theme to be decided and announced later.

Hope to see you all there!

  - Alex and Jack

Heads up - welly-moot tomorrow!

Just a quick reminder - the next Wellington Tolkien Society meeting, Welly-moot #3.2, will be held tomorrow, Sunday the 4th of May, at the ROXY CINEMA, not at the Embassy Cinema.

The theme will be "when does Saruman go to the dark side?".

The meeting will start at 2:00pm. Bring money for coffee from the roxy's cafe. Hope to see you all there!

  - Jack